In May, 2013, The Only Love Project’s Bill Murphy (BM) spent an hour over coffee in the home of legendary radio personality Kevin Matthews (KM) experiencing a conversation that Kevin later called “a ceremony, a prayer.” You’re welcome to eavesdrop. Enjoy!
BM: Briefly tell us your background. What would you want others to know about you?
KM: Oh, that’s a long question. I’m alive, living on earth, you know. I just have been blessed with a lot of good things – good family, two kids, a granddaughter, a wife…so good things.
BM: What has been your background, professionally?
KM: Entertainment. Radio entertainment. But that’s the past. What’s going on in the future, and what’s going on now, is what’s important.
BM: Would you consider yourself a spiritual person?
KM: Well, you know it’s almost, like, Why are you here? Are you a spiritual person?
KM: How’s your health?
BM: Good. [laughs]
KM: You want to write a book, do you?
BM: Yeah. [laughs]
KM: I love to talk to you. You’re here for a reason. Why did you come here? Do you pray? If you do, I think a lot of your prayers are being answered, and you gotta realize what’s in front of you, with all of the things you’re doing right now. I mean, you’re taking pictures, you’re recording this, you’re changing a lot of dynamic in your life. You’re changing a lot of things. My Native grandma once told me that if you turn a stone, you change the universe. So think of what you’re here, taking pictures, recording, you’re changing things. And I think there’s no such thing as coincidence. You were supposed to be here, I was supposed to be here. And I just kept thinking this morning, “Why are you coming here?” You’re meeting people who you’re supposed to meet. We talked about Tim [Cusack], and Tim calls [he actually did during the interview with Kevin]. I think a lot of times people pray for things, and it comes right to them, and they don’t even see that the prayer’s being answered.
BM: Most religious traditions speak of the power and value of love. For example, the Dhammapada, from the Buddhist tradition, tells us “only love dispels hate.” The Bible tells us, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. You are also to love one another.” What, if anything, do those words mean to you?
KM: There’s an old saying: “Mi Taku Oyasin,” which is Lakota for “We are all related.” We are all related. It’s like skin color. He’s a yellow man, red man, black man, white man, four colors, and he’s saying what I (a white man) and a black man and a red man would say: “We’re all related.” But how many people believe that?
BM: I don’t know. Not enough do, I’ll bet. What role can love play in the world today?
KM: It can save it. A lot of people – maybe most, but at least a lot of people in the world right now – are starving. They’re starving to be loved. There’s so many people that would say, “I don’t want, no, I’m ok.” But they’re starving for love. And it’s so simple. I think that’s what we all have in common: we’re starving for love.
BM: That’s an interesting choice of words. What evidence would you have? “Starving for love.” What does that look like? What does that mean?
KM: It just is what’s in my heart. You want to be loved. You want this interview to go well. You want people to read your blog. You want acknowledgement. And I think you want God to acknowledge you. We’re in starvation mode. Look at the world. There’s a lot of people that think they have everything, say they have everything, but they have nothing. And then there are people that have nothing that have everything. So that’s why I think the world is starving. Spiritually, especially spiritually. You look at the world. Look at people with negative energy or whatever. That exists too. And there’s nothing wrong with it. Ignoring that negativity is around you [is pointless]. You have negative. We both do. We’re built up of positive and negative. We’re basically walking electricity.
KM: You’ve got a choice. Either you can live in that negative circle, or you can live in that positive circle. That’s your choice. I had an old man once say to me “You can hold out your arms and turn in a circle. That’s your circle of life.” You can do it. You can do it right now. But you feel kind of bashful or ashamed to maybe do it.
BM: [Stands up and holds out arms and spins slowly in a circle]
KM: That’s your circle of life, Bill, and what you bring into that circle is totally your choice, whether it be alcohol or pornography or good things or whatever, you’re responsible for what comes into that circle. So if you don’t want something in that circle, you’ve got to walk away from it. How many people are bringing so much into that circle? It’s better to walk away than just to bring it in.
BM: That brings up a good question that’s not even on my list. I don’t disagree with you. If this is our circle of influence, then this is our world.
KM: Yeah, but it’s more like, it’s true. I can drink myself to death, I can gain weight, I can do cocaine, or I can belong to a church and bring that in, and tell everybody that they’re on the wrong path or whatever. It’s what you bring into that circle. And I think the problem is when people tell you what to bring into that circle.
BM: Then, how about the world’s circle, the world’s problems? How much of that belongs in our circle? Should we be concerned about things in Zimbabwe, or whatever?
KM: I think we’ve got a choice. There’s hunger, there’s starvation, in the world. Yet, look at how much food we throw away. Or people waiting for God to feed [others], or to stop all wars, or to do all this. We have the ability to either destroy ourselves, or love one another. It’s as simple as that. It’s pretty simple.
BM: That’s a good place for this follow-up question, then. What stops people from being more loving and compassionate?
KM: I don’t know. You’d have to ask them. I think they want to feed on the direct opposite. What stops people? Fear, being ashamed, I don’t know. Do they have no faith, they’re empty, they’re starving, and it’s their choice. That’s their world. If you’re hungry, and there’s food in front of you, I can’t make you eat.
BM: So you’re saying it’s an individual thing, there’s not really an answer that says, “This stops people.” You’re saying it’s up to each person. If I want to know what stops people, I should go ask this person or that person.
KM: I think you ought to worry about yourself. You ask what stops people, well obviously, what’s stopping you? Why aren’t you doing something that stops war? And why aren’t you feeding the hungry? Why aren’t you clothing? See, you’re projecting what’s really in your circle. Understand? You’re bringing things out of your circle and putting them, well why don’t you do a better job of feeding people? You know, it’s everything I hear you say is really coming from you. I have no idea. You could take the most violent people in the world and that’s where they’re at. You take a look at the person that chopped off that British soldier’s head, I’m not condoning that, but that’s where he’s at right now. I can’t fix that. Only he can.
BM: That’s, then what about causes?
BM: Yeah, like save the trees, save the whales.
KM: I think you oughta save yourself, first. Again, we live on a planet where the earth has eons and eons to repair itself. We don’t. Mankind can be gone, quickly. We’re at a real pivotal time in existence. I don’t think we have to. God’ll take care of the whales and God’ll take care of whatever. You take care of yourself, because like I said, this earth has got eons to repair itself. Take a look at some of those stones outside [he looks out the window into his back yard] have been here a lot longer than you.
KM: But it’s true, really, when you think about it.
KM: To think that that stone is millions of years old. We’re going to be lucky if we live to be 100.
BM: [laughs] Sounds like a Native American approach to spirituality, in some respects.
KM: Well, God created the heavens and the earth, so we’re here. We’re in heaven.
BM: [laughs] True.
KM: I’ve done a lot of work. I’ve known a lot of people. And that started a long, long time ago. You meet people, and you gotta be careful what you pray for, ‘cause it comes true. In order to work with people, you’ve gotta learn about them. And then in order to learn about them, you’ve gotta live with them, and become what they are. Again, we’re all related.
BM: Do you have recommendations regarding how someone might cultivate a spirit of love over the long term, but also put love into action right now, so that he or she can make a positive difference in the world?
KM: Yeah. Give away something of yours. I believe that you truly own something when you give something away, something that you really love. When you wake up in the morning, try to out-give God.
KM: Try that. It’s like this morning I was just sitting here, waiting for you and watching this rain. A lot of people would think, well, today I can’t do much and it’s a really crappy day. But really when you think about what’s been given to you today, how many raindrops fall, that’s amazing when you really think about it. How many raindrops do you think fell today?
BM: Want me to go out and count?
KM: How many do you think? You know what I’m saying?
BM: Innumerable. Yeah.
KM: And each one is one, you know? All falling at once. And what that is is that recycling, and you should give thanks for that. If you think it’s easy to make a raindrop, try and make one.
KM: And then you think of how many needles in that pine tree, make up that tree, and you just take a look at what’s around you. It’s pretty amazing. I remember one friend said, “An ant might be small, but try and make one.”
KM: It’s pretty amazing when you start meeting some folks. It’s amazing if you will go all around the country and find these folks, and listen to what they’re telling you.
BM: So, your recommendation is to give something away, or appreciate what’s already around us?
KM: You don’t have to give something away. You don’t have to do anything.
BM: Yeah, that’s true.
KM: You don’t have to do anything. Just sit there in your circle. I don’t know what you should do. You do. You do. Everybody knows what they should do. Everybody knows what’s good and what’s not. You have that choice. People want to read book on how to live life, watch TV programs, you send away for DVDs on how I can be this. People go to concerts now, and they look at concerts through their palm [through their cell-phone view screens]. They don’t experience anything.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
KM: It’s pretty simple. I think the one thing today is, it’s simple. We’re all starving, and we can all do good things, or we could do bad things. Your choice. And there’s a consequence, too. There’s a consequence to what you do.
BM: Who do you look up to the most when you think about the power of love?
KM: Jesus. God.
BM: So, were you always this way? Did you always have these ideas, about the circle of influence?
KM: Oh, that? No, that was all stuff from just the people that I’ve met. I worked a lot with, and still do, with buffalo, especially those out in Yellowstone. So you just meet all the people that were out there. Always had a love for just the outdoors, and seeing not all reservations have casinos. Especially out in, like, Wounded Knee, and the Hopi down in Arizona, things like that.
BM: You have a slightly different view of, well, how do I put that? You said we all know what to do, and I can’t tell other people what to do, that’s for them to decide. That’s not a typically evangelical Christian approach to things. They usually say, “I know what you should be doing.”
KM: That’s pretty selfish.
KM: It is.
BM: Well, that’s just the way it is. I don’t want to attach selfish or not selfish to it.
KM: You know, yesterday Father Mark from St. Anthony’s – he’s a real good friend – said he’s had Jewish people come into the church and they’re standing in line to get communion, and some priests would say, “You don’t belong in this church, and I can’t give you communion.” But Father Mark would give them communion. Why should you deny somebody that food and, you know, who owns love?
BM: I do.
KM: You know what I’m saying?
BM: I have the patent on it. [laughs]
KM: But how many people think they do, or they own God?
KM: You don’t do that. That’s a pretty bold statement. When you play God, or you can’t pray, really? That’s pretty stupid. That’s pretty arrogant. But I love to watch people tell other people who God is, and your religion is no good, and you belong over there, and you can’t have that, or your hair shouldn’t be long, or you shouldn’t do this. But again, that’s where they’re at.
BM: Is it going to get fixed?
KM: I don’t know. Like I said, what if it doesn’t? Then we’ll destroy ourselves. And we won’t be here, but I guarantee those rocks that I talked about, and all of this earth, can heal itself.
BM: But it has to start with me?
KM: I think so. You asked about my heroes. I love Mother Theresa. What a beautiful person she was. She gave everything. And also what I love, and these people, that tell other people what to do, and I look at what we do with the unborn in this world. That tells me a lot. That baby’s alive, God created it. And what we do with that unborn child tells us a lot about what we’re going to do with adults and older people, and just how we act. When you have a mother who’s going to kill a baby, and even a father who says, hey, I’m going to help pay for it, and then you’re going to tell me what to do? You have no regard for life. If you have no regard for life, then you have no regard for me. You have no regard for these trees or the planet. You go ahead and be against Monsanto, you go ahead and Al Gore can stop this thunderstorm from happening, you go ahead. You know what I mean?
KM: I’ve often wondered about that with the whole global warming thing. It’s political. You gotta be careful with politics. There’s this woman whom I saw on Facebook. She’s really angry about what’s going on with the buffalo up in Yellowstone. Sometimes it’s hard to bring all this stuff up because you might not know what it is, or I’m gonna be labeled as stupid or out there. But me and this woman and others, including a grandmother, walked the Badlands, 507 miles we walked from the Badlands to Yellowstone for this buffalo. So until you walk in the footsteps of the buffalo, you can’t get on Facebook and blame the ranchers and hate them and whatnot, until you actually go out and do something. You have to be real careful. Hosting anger and hatred toward ranchers, what’s that gonna do? Go out and do something, you know? Go out. And do something. And you can either choose a political path, or a spiritual path. And that to me is the biggest thing I’ve learned, is that the political path will destroy you.
BM: It can be both.
KM: Yeah, it can. Because that’s another thing too, this whole separation of church and state, or like separation of, how can you do that? You go into a government building and you say, “Jesus, why don’t you wait out here. God, why don’t you just wait out here. I gotta go get my drivers’ license.” Or “Jesus, why don’t you wait out here, I’ve got to go pick up my kid.” So again, I think that question is a political question, and it’ll destroy you. And it’s what path you choose. I remember once taking a look at the Milky Way galaxy. And if you take a buffalo hide, a wild buffalo hide, not a Ted Turner buffalo, which is a dairy cow and buffalo, and you take it and tape it out, the same which the Lakota call it a buffalo star map, because it looks exactly like the Milky Way galaxy. And NASA’s even started to use the Lakota star knowledge with what they use, the two. But the thing is, you take a look at the Milky Way galaxy, it goes straight across and then it divides, and there’s a short path and a long path, and it’s almost like they’re saying, this is the political path, it’s real short and you’re going to fall off. The long spiritual path is the one that’s the hardest to walk, it’s the longest and all that. So I learned a long time ago that you can either get political and it will kill you and destroy you and government will wipe you out, or you can just be on a spiritual path. You have a choice. And the people that want to get political, that’s where you’re at. If you wanna go on Facebook and just hate everybody, that’s where you’re at. So there comes a time when, for me personally, to just be thankful for what I have, everything beyond this. When I was first diagnosed [with MS], they thought it was a brain tumor. I have MS, thank God for MS, because I would have never seen my grandchild. So it could always be worse. And all the neat people I met since I had MS. With other neurological diseases and stuff like that. It’s good.
BM: Were you always this in tune with yourself and the world around you?
KM: No. Still not. But you have to experience it. It’s like if I chose to, when somebody asks for help and you say ok, here it goes. Years ago, I didn’t know anything about a circle or whatever, I didn’t know anything about this, but when someone gives you something, and like a pipe, for example. A long time ago, I helped a man named Sana who is Native [Iroquois] promote his music. It was a big deal to him, and in exchange he gave me a pipe, a chanupa [chanupa waken, Lakota for sacred pipe] And I kept it in the house, and he just said respect it and just never smoke it. And then that pipe was in the house for a long, long, long time. And then I helped out some other Natives, and I said, I’ve got this pipe. And they said, really. And so they said, well why don’t you bring it to this ceremony we’re having? And they woke the pipe up, and we did a ceremony with that pipe. And in order to really understand what that meant, what that pipe meant and whatnot, you gotta experience things. Had I known that I’d be arrested for praying, be looked down upon, it’s basically you got to experience these things in order to know what you’re talking about. Does that make sense?
KM: I chose to do that. And the thing is, you just experience a lot in life. A lot of people don’t. But it’s powerful. Prayer is powerful, a very powerful thing. And that’s what’s powerful about it. It’s not the pipe, it’s the prayer. I can remember once, Sana took that same pipe and we’d go to sun dances with that, and Sana would dance with that pipe. So that pipe has been in sun dances, and in Hopi sweat lodges. But it wasn’t the pipe, it’s the prayer. It’s what it means. And I can remember once these kids were hanging out with Sana, and Sana would attract people. And these guys, they were pretty young, I don’t know, they were probably 20 or something, and they wanted a pipe. “Hey Sana, will you make us a pipe? Or can you get us a pipe?” So Sana said to them, “Go down to the gas station and buy a little corncob pipe.” So they went down there, brought him back the corncob pipe, and he said, “Here, use this.”
KM: And they looked and they just left and just left him standing there. But it’s not the pipe, it’s the prayer.
BM: They were thinking it was the object that gives the sacredness to the ceremony.
KM: It’s a pipe. It’s a prayer. That’s what it’s all about. It’s not the church, the size of the church or the stained windows. You know Sana once told me, because we were out (we hung out a lot), and he said, “The earth that you’re walking on.” He goes, “The earth that you’re walking on, that’s the floor.” And he said, “The sky, that’s the ceiling. And then the four directions,” He goes, “Those are the walls. That’s your church.” He goes, “That’s a pretty big church, isn’t it, brother?”
KM: Then just walked on. You think about it. That’s a pretty big church. So you really start to see, you’re in church all the time. And it’s whatever, that little corncob pipe or the big one my friend gave me. You know what I mean, man?
KM: So in order to just experience life, how many people want to leave maybe Wyoming to go for a big job at a newspaper. It’s not that it’s wrong or right or bad or good. It’s just how many people have no idea what it’s like to just go out one night. I was told by that grandmother woman who walked the buffalo trail with me, that 500-mile walk, “How many people have never gone out in the middle of the woods, or a mountain or whatever, and just stayed there?”
KM: With nothing. Go do that sometime.
KM: Well I can’t do that, I’m gonna be attacked by wolves, or whatever. But you know what I mean? How many people can’t be by themselves. Even Mother Theresa would often say, “You’ve got to just stop and go be by yourself.” ‘Cause that’s when you start to hear things. So it can be a Hopi elder, or a Mother Theresa, or that Virgin Mary statue that I found all broken and glued her back together, and that’s how I named my studios, my recording studios after her. You should take a picture of that, ‘cause they’re called Broken Mary Studios.
BM: Oh, that’s great. [I snapped a few pictures as Kevin continued to talk]
KM: And the thing is, I had a chance, somebody put that back together and said, “We could paint her and fix her fingers and hands.” And I said, “No. Because that represents, everybody’s broken, right, and so nothing’s perfect.” We’ve done some really cool things with that with DeVos Children’s Hospital, and little kids. There was one particular kid who just passed away three weeks ago. Little Oliver. He was, I think he just turned eight, and passed away from cancer. But he had a lot to do with doing stuff with little Oliver and that Broken Mary Project. That was in a junkyard. Well, it was over by a dumpster. So I glued it together, hung onto it in the garage for the longest time, put it together, and so Father Mark and I use that now. And that’s just a symbol, that’s just made of concrete, but look at her hands, and look at, she’s all broken. ‘Cause we all are.
BM: Oh yeah. That’s wonderful.
KM: All you gotta do is take a look at some things. That was just in the garbage, and I thought, “No man, that’s not right.” Put her in a blanket, had her out in the garage cut in half, broke in half, and then finally, brother, this guy said, “Hey, I can fix that.” Took it over, and there she is.
BM: Let me get another picture. Sometimes my iPhone takes better pictures than my Nikon.
KM: Yeah. Obviously, you’re attracted to that, and I love that. We have a picture of little Oliver who put his arms around her.
BM: Oh really, that must have been an emotional moment.
KM: Yeah, it was. He was a sweet little kid. Like I said, the power of prayer, that’s very powerful. So whether it be a broken statue of Mary or a pipe, or whatever. A church, a tree, a mountain.
BM: Do you ever read books by an author named Tom Brown, Jr.?
BM: Tom Brown, Jr., wrote a book called The Way of the Scout. He writes a lot of books about Native American life, and an old Indian he called “Grandfather” who taught him how to live off the land and track in the woods and appreciate the spirituality of the outdoors. When I first read that book it just floored me. I thought, wow, these guys were really in touch.
KM: But you know what, Bill, we’re all Indians. You know what I mean? It’s like, I know so many Indians that are like, you can’t come over here. You can’t come to a sun dance, you’re white. Well, yeah, but our hearts are all red.
KM: You know what I mean?
KM: We do that all the time, and again, there’s four colors in the world, black, white, red, yellow. How many times, oh, you’re not supposed to go to China and be with those Tibetans and those monks. Or you’re not supposed to be with those black people, going to a Baptist church. And you can’t sing and hold snakes and drink turpentine. And this whole list of you can’t, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t. We’re all related. We’re all Baptist. We’re all black. We’re all red. We’re all white. We’re all yellow.
BM: Is that fairly common teaching at your church, or are you unique there?
BM: The things you’re talking about now.
KM: That’s what I love about Father Mark. He’s a servant too, just like me. He’s a priest, he’s a man. Just like Jesus was a man. Jesus sinned, in a sense, or I think he did. Or he laughed, he was tempted. You don’t think the disciples did fart jokes?
KM: You’re supposed to have fun. Everybody gets so serious. Out for causes and you can’t have fun if you’re in church. I don’t believe that. And again, remember my church, what Sana said with the ground and the four directions and the ceiling. That’s a big church. There’s churches within churches. Churches, churches, churches. You’re always in church. That’s what I don’t understand. You’re always in church. And how many times I’ve sat in a tree stand just waiting for deer. That’s pretty cool. That’s how come people that hate Ted Nugent. Well, he just kills animals. Ted’s a pretty cool person. He’s a good friend.
BM: Is he really?
KM: He’s a real good spiritual person.
BM: I like Ted. I’ve always liked his music, and he’s a wild man in concert, and very outspoken.
KM: But he’s a good person. I mean, I’m sure Ted did something this weekend with the stuff he’s done with the military and wounded warriors. He’s done the walk. It’s like that woman on Facebook yelling about the buffalo. Well, walk it. Go walk from here to there. Don’t just sit and just complain. How many people do that? They just complain.
BM: [laughs] Most people do that.
KM: I bow hunted a bear once, and it was politically correctness. All these people were, like, “Be careful.” Because here’s the politics again, right, all these people were like, “Be careful what you say.” And I can remember once I told Sana I got a bear. And he was, like, “Really?” And I was, like, “Yeah, I got him with a bow.” And Sana goes, “That’s good. He was born for you. That lives with you from now on.” And what was funny is here I’m teaching a Native American how to use a bow.
BM: [laughs] How did that feel? Were you like awed by that experience?
KM: No, it was, like, “I thought you knew. I don’t know how to shoot one of these.”
KM: You know what I mean? It was humble. We were at a sun dance once. I was at a sun dance because Sana, he dances, and that’s just what he does. June time starts the sun dance time. And Sana wanted to go to a sun dance, and we went down to Big Mountain, Arizona. And that whole mountain now is all closed, the government closed that down. So I love when I hear people say all the time we’re being persecuted for prayer. But Sana was at another sun dance one time and a sun dance is where you dance for four days without food and water, and it’s basically a chance for you to just give thanks, and especially just to suffer for people who are less fortunate than you.
BM: Four days without?
KM: Uh-huh, without food and water. Then what you do is sometimes Sana would see these, right here, see these scars right here, they would tie that to a tree. Or he had wounds like that on his back where they would take —
BM: — you’re not going to say hooks, are you? —
KM: — hooks with buffalo skulls and the children would ride on the buffalo skulls until your skin broke, because the only thing you own is your flesh and your blood, ok. And so anyways, you’d get a lot of these ceremonies and stuff like that. And Sana was at this one ceremony, and a lot of cults and stuff would come, and these guys ran up to Sana once and said, “Sana, witches are here.” And he starts looking up at the sky going, “Where are they?” And they said, “They’re at the gate.” You see, he thought they were flying in on brooms. That’s how innocent he was. And they’re like, “No, they’re right here at the gate. They’re witches.” And he said, “Well, have them come on in.” “They’re witches.” And he said, “So? Have them come on in.”
KM: And he sat down and he talked to witches. And he said, “Just because I’m talking to witches doesn’t mean I have to be a witch, but they have something to say.” Right? That’s the kind of innocence, when someone says witches are here and he’s looking up at the sky thinking they’re flying in on brooms.
KM: That’s pretty amazing. Learning to just accept people for what they are. We’re all praying to the same God. Especially this whole Middle Eastern thing. That’s what’s amazing to me, it’s like, guess what, same God, folks! Nope, I own him, you don’t. That’s where they’re at. I own God. Your God’s the wrong God, so we gotta kill you.
BM: So how do you get around that? How do you fix a situation like that?
KM: Pray. You know what, you don’t know what to do, pray. God’s stronger than the Muslims and the Christians, and Christians are being crucified literally now. So what is mankind going to do? Nothing. Mankind will destroy it. Trust me. Women give birth, men destroy. It’s all out of control. So pray.
BM: Let me ask you one more thing, ‘cause you mentioned God a lot. How do you know God exists?
KM: Right? I’m gonna leave you with that.
BM: I gotta use that, “try and build an ant.” [laughs] I have to use that as the headline.
KM: Yep, but it’s true. I look at that little [creature], you know. Plus, as I said, Bill. Try to out-give God. How do I know God exists? That’s pretty funny.
BM: [laughs] That could be my headline. “How do I know God exists? Try and build an ant.”
KM: Yeah. Stay in touch, too, bud. It doesn’t have to end. It’s pretty cool. We’ve talked more and more and more.
BM: I’d love to. There’s a lot of what you’re saying that just resonates so much. Everything you said resonates. This is the path I’m on lately. Finding people like you who have something to say about how to make the world a better place, starting with yourself. That’s what it’s all about.
KM: I’ll tell you, too, Bill, there’s no question, a huge concern I have lately is the unborn children and what’s happening.
BM: That Gosnell trial must’ve broken your heart then, didn’t it?
KM: Yeah, I mean, I read a report today, there was a little Chinese baby flushed down a toilet and lived. And it’s like, my God, you know? I look at that abortion doctor and two weeks ago, it’s, wow. I can’t help it. Even Obama is for partial-birth abortion, and I go, eww. Wow. Do you really care about me? Oh, you want to stop Al-Qaeda? And this is what you do to the unborn? I love that. Seriously. What we do with little children will tell you what we do with humanity.
BM: I agree.
KM: Look at this, yeah, Chinese baby rescued alive from toilet pipe after being flushed. Watch the video clip.
BM: That’s heartbreaking.
KM: What does that say?
BM: I don’t know, but it makes me cry.
KM: Do you know what I’m saying? What does that say? And that baby’s alive. And that’s how come when people want to, gosh I’ve got to get the Atkins Diet or the South Beach Diet, or what’s, how do my eyes look, do I look old?
KM: Are you kidding me? You’ve got to put things into perspective, Bill. It’s not that hard. It’s simple. You’re making a difference already. You don’t have to publish a book, you’re making a difference already. It’s like what my Native grandma told me: you overturn a stone, you change the universe. It really is true. Think of that stone, if you’re ever in Alaska.
BM: I’ve been to Alaska.
KM: You go to a place where there’s never been anybody, the moon, look at the moon. There was nobody there. Suddenly they start bringing moon rocks down. That’s another thing, too. Sana, his Tuscarora, Iroquois Indian [Tribe] near Niagara Falls, When NASA was first going to go to the moon, NASA went to that reservation, and they asked Turhan Clause, “Tell us more about the moon.” The Tuscarora said, “Don’t take anything from the moon,” the elders said. “If you do, you’ve got to give something in return.” You can’t just, you understand, I can take something but I’ve got to give it back. So many people, they’ll just take things.
BM: How do you spell his name?
KM: TURHAN CLAUSE
BM: Turhan Clause.
KM: Or crossing feet.
BM: Crossing feet?
KM: Crossing feet, because when he was a little baby, his feet crossed.
BM: Crossing Feet Clause. He’s a Native American.
KM: Yeah, he died of complications to diabetes.
BM: That’s too bad.
KM: Eh, he’s not dead. Trust me, he’s not dead.
BM: I like the way you think. [laughs] I appreciate that. And I appreciate your time.
KM: Oh my pleasure, but you’re doing something good. Publish your book. Publish it, get it on the Internet. Here, I’m telling you what to do.
BM: [laughs] No, I appreciate it.
KM: I’m telling you there’s a lot of people that are starving, buddy. You’ve got a chance to feed them.
KM: But, see, you have thought about it. You’ve prayed about it. And again, you only have to pray once. I love people that keep praying and praying and praying and praying. It’s like, he heard it. And now keep your eyes open because it might not hit you over the head or FedEx isn’t going to deliver you the result, you’ve got to be attentive.
BM: You’re right. Maybe, I was looking for a way to make a difference.
KM: Well, here it is. You’d be surprised what overturning one little rock will do. That rippling effect, where it just keeps going out. You can make a difference. You’re supposed to be doing this. And you’d be surprised at how you don’t have to do a lot of the work. Let people tell you. See, Bill, it’s no coincidence that you came here. You know what I mean? It’s amazing how things work, and if you just keep your eyes and ears open, how, wow, it’s just awesome. And again, Bill, you can jump into that political world and they’re going to tell you this isn’t politically correct. Or they’ll tell you, you can’t do that, you gotta get a permit for that, you’re never gonna get a web designer for this, da da da da da. Oh, don’t talk about Muslims and Hindus and Native Americans. You can’t do that, you can’t do that, you can’t do that. Take a look at the Milky Way, Bill, and that’s the honest-to-God truth. There’s one that’s long and one that’s short, and I’m not saying that could be Jesus to Mohammed to whatever.