{"id":650,"date":"2013-06-25T11:23:52","date_gmt":"2013-06-25T16:23:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/?p=650"},"modified":"2013-12-12T19:14:01","modified_gmt":"2013-12-13T00:14:01","slug":"how-do-i-know-god-exists-try-and-build-an-ant-kevin-matthews","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/?p=650","title":{"rendered":"“How Do I Know God Exists? Try And Build An Ant.” – Kevin Matthews"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"KevinA\"<\/a>In May, 2013, The Only Love Project\u2019s Bill Murphy (BM) spent an hour over coffee in the home of legendary radio personality Kevin Matthews<\/a> (KM) experiencing a conversation that Kevin later called \u201ca ceremony, a prayer.\u201d You\u2019re welcome to eavesdrop. Enjoy!<\/p>\n

BM: Briefly tell us your background. What would you want others to know about you?<\/p>\n

KM: Oh, that\u2019s a long question. I\u2019m alive, living on earth, you know. I just have been blessed with a lot of good things \u2013 good family, two kids, a granddaughter, a wife\u2026so good things.<\/p>\n

BM: What has been your background, professionally?<\/p>\n

KM: Entertainment. Radio entertainment. But that\u2019s the past. What\u2019s going on in the future, and what\u2019s going on now, is what\u2019s important.<\/p>\n

BM: Would you consider yourself a spiritual person?<\/p>\n

KM: Well, you know it\u2019s almost, like, Why are you here? Are you<\/em> a spiritual person?<\/p>\n

BM: Yes.<\/p>\n

KM: How\u2019s your health?<\/p>\n

BM: Good. [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: You want to write a book, do you?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah. [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: I love to talk to you. You\u2019re here for a reason. Why did you come here? Do you pray? If you do, I think a lot of your prayers are being answered, and you gotta realize what\u2019s in front of you, with all of the things you\u2019re doing right now. I mean, you\u2019re taking pictures, you\u2019re recording this, you\u2019re changing a lot of dynamic in your life. You\u2019re changing a lot of things. My Native grandma once told me that if you turn a stone, you change the universe. So think of what you\u2019re here, taking pictures, recording, you\u2019re changing things. And I think there\u2019s no such thing as coincidence. You were supposed to be here, I was supposed to be here. And I just kept thinking this morning, \u201cWhy are you coming here?\u201d You\u2019re meeting people who you\u2019re supposed to meet. We talked about Tim [Cusack], and Tim calls [he actually did during the interview with Kevin]. I think a lot of times people pray for things, and it comes right to them, and they don\u2019t even see that the prayer\u2019s being answered.<\/p>\n

BM: Most religious traditions speak of the power and value of love. For example, the Dhammapada, from the Buddhist tradition, tells us \u201conly love dispels hate.\u201d The Bible tells us, \u201cA new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. You are also to love one another.\u201d What, if anything, do those words mean to you?<\/p>\n

KM: There\u2019s an old saying: \u201cMi Taku Oyasin,\u201d which is Lakota for \u201cWe are all related.\u201d We are all related. It\u2019s like skin color. He\u2019s a yellow man, red man, black man, white man, four colors, and he\u2019s saying what I (a white man) and a black man and a red man would say: \u201cWe\u2019re all related.\u201d But how many people believe that?<\/p>\n

BM: I don\u2019t know. Not enough do, I\u2019ll bet. What role can love play in the world today?<\/p>\n

KM: It can save it. A lot of people \u2013 maybe most, but at least a lot of people in the world right now \u2013 are starving. They\u2019re starving to be loved. There\u2019s so many people that would say, \u201cI don\u2019t want, no, I\u2019m ok.\u201d But they\u2019re starving for love. And it\u2019s so simple. I think that\u2019s what we all have in common: we\u2019re starving for love.<\/p>\n

BM: That\u2019s an interesting choice of words. What evidence would you have? \u201cStarving for love.\u201d What does that look like? What does that mean?<\/p>\n

KM: It just is what\u2019s in my heart. You want to be loved. You want this interview to go well. You want people to read your blog. You want acknowledgement. And I think you want God to acknowledge you. We\u2019re in starvation mode. Look at the world. There\u2019s a lot of people that think they have everything, say they have everything, but they have nothing. And then there are people that have nothing that have everything. So that\u2019s why I think the world is starving. Spiritually, especially spiritually. You look at the world. Look at people with negative energy or whatever. That exists too. And there\u2019s nothing wrong with it. Ignoring that negativity is around you [is pointless]. You have negative. We both do. We\u2019re built up of positive and negative. We\u2019re basically walking electricity.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: You\u2019ve got a choice. Either you can live in that negative circle, or you can live in that positive circle. That\u2019s your choice. I had an old man once say to me \u201cYou can hold out your arms and turn in a circle. That\u2019s your circle of life.\u201d You can do it. You can do it right now. But you feel kind of bashful or ashamed to maybe do it.<\/p>\n

BM: [Stands up and holds out arms and spins slowly in a circle]<\/p>\n

\"KevinC\"<\/a>KM: That\u2019s your circle of life, Bill, and what you bring into that circle is totally your choice, whether it be alcohol or pornography or good things or whatever, you\u2019re responsible for what comes into that circle. So if you don\u2019t want something in that circle, you\u2019ve got to walk away from it. How many people are bringing so much into that circle? It\u2019s better to walk away than just to bring it in.<\/p>\n

BM: That brings up a good question that\u2019s not even on my list. I don\u2019t disagree with you. If this is our circle of influence, then this is our world.<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah, but it\u2019s more like, it\u2019s true. I can drink myself to death, I can gain weight, I can do cocaine, or I can belong to a church and bring that in, and tell everybody that they\u2019re on the wrong path or whatever. It\u2019s what you bring into that circle. And I think the problem is when people tell you what to bring into that circle.<\/p>\n

BM: Then, how about the world\u2019s circle, the world\u2019s problems? How much of that belongs in our circle? Should we be concerned about things in Zimbabwe, or whatever?<\/p>\n

KM: I think we\u2019ve got a choice. There\u2019s hunger, there\u2019s starvation, in the world. Yet, look at how much food we throw away. Or people waiting for God to feed [others], or to stop all wars, or to do all this. We have the ability to either destroy ourselves, or love one another. It\u2019s as simple as that. It\u2019s pretty simple.<\/p>\n

BM: That\u2019s a good place for this follow-up question, then. What stops people from being more loving and compassionate?<\/p>\n

KM: I don\u2019t know. You\u2019d have to ask them. I think they want to feed on the direct opposite. What stops people? Fear, being ashamed, I don\u2019t know. Do they have no faith, they\u2019re empty, they\u2019re starving, and it\u2019s their choice. That\u2019s their world. If you\u2019re hungry, and there\u2019s food in front of you, I can\u2019t make you eat.<\/p>\n

BM: So you\u2019re saying it\u2019s an individual thing, there\u2019s not really an answer that says, \u201cThis stops people.\u201d You\u2019re saying it\u2019s up to each person. If I want to know what stops people, I should go ask this person or that person.<\/p>\n

KM: I think you ought to worry about yourself. You ask what stops people, well obviously, what\u2019s stopping you? Why aren\u2019t you doing something that stops war? And why aren\u2019t you feeding the hungry? Why aren\u2019t you clothing? See, you\u2019re projecting what\u2019s really in your circle. Understand? You\u2019re bringing things out of your circle and putting them, well why don\u2019t you do a better job of feeding people? You know, it\u2019s everything I hear you say is really coming from you. I have no idea. You could take the most violent people in the world and that\u2019s where they\u2019re at. You take a look at the person that chopped off that British soldier\u2019s head, I\u2019m not condoning that, but that\u2019s where he\u2019s at right now. I can\u2019t fix that. Only he can.<\/p>\n

BM: That\u2019s, then what about causes?<\/p>\n

KM: Causes?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah, like save the trees, save the whales.<\/p>\n

\"KevinD\"<\/a>KM: I think you oughta save yourself, first. Again, we live on a planet where the earth has eons and eons to repair itself. We don\u2019t. Mankind can be gone, quickly. We\u2019re at a real pivotal time in existence. I don\u2019t think we have to. God\u2019ll take care of the whales and God\u2019ll take care of whatever. You take care of yourself, because like I said, this earth has got eons to repair itself. Take a look at some of those stones outside [he looks out the window into his back yard] have been here a lot longer than you.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: But it\u2019s true, really, when you think about it.<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: To think that that stone is millions of years old. We\u2019re going to be lucky if we live to be 100.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] Sounds like a Native American approach to spirituality, in some respects.<\/p>\n

KM: Well, God created the heavens and the earth, so we\u2019re here. We\u2019re in heaven.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] True.<\/p>\n

KM: I\u2019ve done a lot of work. I\u2019ve known a lot of people. And that started a long, long time ago. You meet people, and you gotta be careful what you pray for, \u2018cause it comes true. In order to work with people, you\u2019ve gotta learn about them. And then in order to learn about them, you\u2019ve gotta live with them, and become what they are. Again, we\u2019re all related.<\/p>\n

BM: Do you have recommendations regarding how someone might cultivate a spirit of love over the long term, but also put love into action right now, so that he or she can make a positive difference in the world?<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah. Give away something of yours. I believe that you truly own something when you give something away, something that you really love. When you wake up in the morning, try to out-give God.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: Try that. It\u2019s like this morning I was just sitting here, waiting for you and watching this rain. A lot of people would think, well, today I can\u2019t do much and it\u2019s a really crappy day. But really when you think about what\u2019s been given to you today, how many raindrops fall, that\u2019s amazing when you really think about it. How many raindrops do you think fell today?<\/p>\n

BM: Want me to go out and count?<\/p>\n

KM: How many do you think? You know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n

BM: Innumerable. Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: And each one is one, you know? All falling at once. And what that is is that recycling, and you should give thanks for that. If you think it\u2019s easy to make a raindrop, try and make one.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: Right?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: And then you think of how many needles in that pine tree, make up that tree, and you just take a look at what\u2019s around you. It\u2019s pretty amazing. I remember one friend said, \u201cAn ant might be small, but try and make one.\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: It\u2019s pretty amazing when you start meeting some folks. It\u2019s amazing if you will go all around the country and find these folks, and listen to what they\u2019re telling you.<\/p>\n

BM: So, your recommendation is to give something away, or appreciate what\u2019s already around us?<\/p>\n

KM: You don\u2019t have to give something away. You don\u2019t have to do anything.<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

\"IMG_0179\"<\/a>KM: You don\u2019t have to do anything. Just sit there in your circle. I don\u2019t know what you should do. You do. You do. Everybody knows what they should do. Everybody knows what\u2019s good and what\u2019s not. You have that choice. People want to read book on how to live life, watch TV programs, you send away for DVDs on how I can be this. People go to concerts now, and they look at concerts through their palm [through their cell-phone view screens]. They don\u2019t experience anything.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: It\u2019s pretty simple. I think the one thing today is, it\u2019s simple. We\u2019re all starving, and we can all do good things, or we could do bad things. Your choice. And there\u2019s a consequence, too. There\u2019s a consequence to what you do.<\/p>\n

BM: Who do you look up to the most when you think about the power of love?<\/p>\n

KM: Jesus. God.<\/p>\n

BM: So, were you always this way? Did you always have these ideas, about the circle of influence?<\/p>\n

KM: Oh, that? No, that was all stuff from just the people that I\u2019ve met. I worked a lot with, and still do, with buffalo, especially those out in Yellowstone. So you just meet all the people that were out there. Always had a love for just the outdoors, and seeing not all reservations have casinos. Especially out in, like, Wounded Knee, and the Hopi down in Arizona, things like that.<\/p>\n

BM: You have a slightly different view of, well, how do I put that? You said we all know what to do, and I can\u2019t tell other people what to do, that\u2019s for them to decide. That\u2019s not a typically evangelical Christian approach to things. They usually say, \u201cI know what you should be doing.\u201d<\/p>\n

KM: That\u2019s pretty selfish.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: It is.<\/p>\n

BM: Well, that\u2019s just the way it is. I don\u2019t want to attach selfish or not selfish to it.<\/p>\n

KM: You know, yesterday Father Mark from St. Anthony\u2019s \u2013 he\u2019s a real good friend \u2013 said he\u2019s had Jewish people come into the church and they\u2019re standing in line to get communion, and some priests would say, \u201cYou don\u2019t belong in this church, and I can\u2019t give you communion.\u201d But Father Mark would give them communion. Why should you deny somebody that food and, you know, who owns love?<\/p>\n

BM: I do.<\/p>\n

KM: You know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n

BM: I have the patent on it. [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: But how many people think they do, or they own God?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: You don\u2019t do that. That\u2019s a pretty bold statement. When you play God, or you can\u2019t pray, really? That\u2019s pretty stupid. That\u2019s pretty arrogant. But I love to watch people tell other people who God is, and your religion is no good, and you belong over there, and you can\u2019t have that, or your hair shouldn\u2019t be long, or you shouldn\u2019t do this. But again, that\u2019s where they\u2019re at.<\/p>\n

BM: Is it going to get fixed?<\/p>\n

KM: I don\u2019t know. Like I said, what if it doesn\u2019t? Then we\u2019ll destroy ourselves. And we won\u2019t be here, but I guarantee those rocks that I talked about, and all of this earth, can heal itself.<\/p>\n

BM: But it has to start with me?<\/p>\n

\"unborn_baby\"<\/a>KM: I think so. You asked about my heroes. I love Mother Theresa. What a beautiful person she was. She gave everything. And also what I love, and these people, that tell other people what to do, and I look at what we do with the unborn in this world. That tells me a lot. That baby\u2019s alive, God created it. And what we do with that unborn child tells us a lot about what we\u2019re going to do with adults and older people, and just how we act. When you have a mother who\u2019s going to kill a baby, and even a father who says, hey, I\u2019m going to help pay for it, and then you\u2019re going to tell me what to do? You have no regard for life. If you have no regard for life, then you have no regard for me. You have no regard for these trees or the planet. You go ahead and be against Monsanto, you go ahead and Al Gore can stop this thunderstorm from happening, you go ahead. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

BM: Absolutely!<\/p>\n

KM: I\u2019ve often wondered about that with the whole global warming thing. It\u2019s political. You gotta be careful with politics. There\u2019s this woman whom I saw on Facebook. She\u2019s really angry about what\u2019s going on with the buffalo up in Yellowstone. Sometimes it\u2019s hard to bring all this stuff up because you might not know what it is, or I\u2019m gonna be labeled as stupid or out there. But me and this woman and others, including a grandmother, walked the Badlands, 507 miles we walked from the Badlands to Yellowstone for this buffalo. So until you walk in the footsteps of the buffalo, you can\u2019t get on Facebook and blame the ranchers and hate them and whatnot, until you actually go out and do something. You have to be real careful. Hosting anger and hatred toward ranchers, what\u2019s that gonna do? Go out and do something, you know? Go out. And do something. And you can either choose a political path, or a spiritual path. And that to me is the biggest thing I\u2019ve learned, is that the political path will destroy you.<\/p>\n

BM: It can be both.<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah, it can. Because that\u2019s another thing too, this whole separation of church and state, or like separation of, how can you do that? You go into a government building and you say, \u201cJesus, why don\u2019t you wait out here. God, why don\u2019t you just wait out here. I gotta go get my drivers\u2019 license.\u201d Or \u201cJesus, why don\u2019t you wait out here, I\u2019ve got to go pick up my kid.\u201d So again, I think that question is a political question, and it\u2019ll destroy you. And it\u2019s what path you choose. I remember once taking a look at the Milky Way galaxy. And if you take a buffalo hide, a wild buffalo hide, not a Ted Turner buffalo, which is a dairy cow and buffalo, and you take it and tape it out, the same which the Lakota call it a buffalo star map, because it looks exactly like the Milky Way galaxy. And NASA\u2019s even started to use the Lakota star knowledge with what they use, the two. But the thing is, you take a look at the Milky Way galaxy, it goes straight across and then it divides, and there\u2019s a short path and a long path, and it\u2019s almost like they\u2019re saying, this is the political path, it\u2019s real short and you\u2019re going to fall off. The long spiritual path is the one that\u2019s the hardest to walk, it\u2019s the longest and all that. So I learned a long time ago that you can either get political and it will kill you and destroy you and government will wipe you out, or you can just be on a spiritual path. You have a choice. And the people that want to get political, that\u2019s where you\u2019re at. If you wanna go on Facebook and just hate everybody, that\u2019s where you\u2019re at. So there comes a time when, for me personally, to just be thankful for what I have, everything beyond this. When I was first diagnosed [with MS], they thought it was a brain tumor. I have MS, thank God for MS, because I would have never seen my grandchild. So it could always be worse. And all the neat people I met since I had MS. With other neurological diseases and stuff like that. It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

BM: Were you always this in tune with yourself and the world around you?<\/p>\n

KM: No. Still not. But you have to experience it. It\u2019s like if I chose to, when somebody asks for help and you say ok, here it goes. Years ago, I didn\u2019t know anything about a circle or whatever, I didn\u2019t know anything about this, but when someone gives you something, and like a pipe, for example. A long time ago, I helped a man named Sana who is Native [Iroquois] promote his music. It was a big deal to him, and in exchange he gave me a pipe, a chanupa [chanupa waken, Lakota for sacred pipe] And I kept it in the house, and he just said respect it and just never smoke it. And then that pipe was in the house for a long, long, long time. And then I helped out some other Natives, and I said, I\u2019ve got this pipe. And they said, really. And so they said, well why don\u2019t you bring it to this ceremony we\u2019re having? And they woke the pipe up, and we did a ceremony with that pipe. And in order to really understand what that meant, what that pipe meant and whatnot, you gotta experience things. Had I known that I\u2019d be arrested for praying, be looked down upon, it\u2019s basically you got to experience these things in order to know what you\u2019re talking about. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n

BM: Absolutely.<\/p>\n

KM: I chose to do that. And the thing is, you just experience a lot in life. A lot of people don\u2019t. But it\u2019s powerful. Prayer is powerful, a very powerful thing. And that\u2019s what\u2019s powerful about it. It\u2019s not the pipe, it\u2019s the prayer. I can remember once, Sana took that same pipe and we\u2019d go to sun dances with that, and Sana would dance with that pipe. So that pipe has been in sun dances, and in Hopi sweat lodges. But it wasn\u2019t the pipe, it\u2019s the prayer. It\u2019s what it means. And I can remember once these kids were hanging out with Sana, and Sana would attract people. And these guys, they were pretty young, I don\u2019t know, they were probably 20 or something, and they wanted a pipe. \u201cHey Sana, will you make us a pipe? Or can you get us a pipe?\u201d So Sana said to them, \u201cGo down to the gas station and buy a little corncob pipe.\u201d So they went down there, brought him back the corncob pipe, and he said, \u201cHere, use this.\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: And they looked and they just left and just left him standing there. But it\u2019s not the pipe, it\u2019s the prayer.<\/p>\n

BM: They were thinking it was the object that gives the sacredness to the ceremony.<\/p>\n

KM: It\u2019s a pipe. It\u2019s a prayer. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. It\u2019s not the church, the size of the church or the stained windows. You know Sana once told me, because we were out (we hung out a lot), and he said, \u201cThe earth that you\u2019re walking on.\u201d He goes, \u201cThe earth that you\u2019re walking on, that\u2019s the floor.\u201d And he said, \u201cThe sky, that\u2019s the ceiling. And then the four directions,\u201d He goes, \u201cThose are the walls. That\u2019s your church.\u201d He goes, \u201cThat\u2019s a pretty big church, isn\u2019t it, brother?\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: Then just walked on. You think about it. That\u2019s a pretty big church. So you really start to see, you\u2019re in church all the time. And it\u2019s whatever, that little corncob pipe or the big one my friend gave me. You know what I mean, man?<\/p>\n

BM: Absolutely.<\/p>\n

KM: So in order to just experience life, how many people want to leave maybe Wyoming to go for a big job at a newspaper. It\u2019s not that it\u2019s wrong or right or bad or good. It\u2019s just how many people have no idea what it\u2019s like to just go out one night. I was told by that grandmother woman who walked the buffalo trail with me, that 500-mile walk, \u201cHow many people have never gone out in the middle of the woods, or a mountain or whatever, and just stayed there?\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: With nothing. Go do that sometime.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

\"BrokenMaryD\"<\/a>KM: Well I can\u2019t do that, I\u2019m gonna be attacked by wolves, or whatever. But you know what I mean? How many people can\u2019t be by themselves. Even Mother Theresa would often say, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to just stop and go be by yourself.\u201d \u2018Cause that\u2019s when you start to hear things. So it can be a Hopi elder, or a Mother Theresa, or that Virgin Mary statue that I found all broken and glued her back together, and that\u2019s how I named my studios, my recording studios after her. You should take a picture of that, \u2018cause they\u2019re called Broken Mary Studios.<\/p>\n

BM: Oh, that\u2019s great. [I snapped a few pictures as Kevin continued to talk]<\/p>\n

KM: And the thing is, I had a chance, somebody put that back together and said, \u201cWe could paint her and fix her fingers and hands.\u201d And I said, \u201cNo. Because that represents, everybody\u2019s broken, right, and so nothing\u2019s perfect.\u201d We\u2019ve done some really cool things with that with DeVos Children\u2019s Hospital, and little kids. There was one particular kid who just passed away three weeks ago. Little Oliver. He was, I think he just turned eight, and passed away from cancer. But he had a lot to do with doing stuff with little Oliver and that Broken Mary Project. That was in a junkyard. Well, it was over by a dumpster. So I glued it together, hung onto it in the garage for the longest time, put it together, and so Father Mark and I use that now. And that\u2019s just a symbol, that\u2019s just made of concrete, but look at her hands, and look at, she\u2019s all broken. \u2018Cause we all are.<\/p>\n

BM: Oh yeah. That\u2019s wonderful.<\/p>\n

\"BrokenMaryB\"<\/a>KM: All you gotta do is take a look at some things. That was just in the garbage, and I thought, \u201cNo man, that\u2019s not right.\u201d Put her in a blanket, had her out in the garage cut in half, broke in half, and then finally, brother, this guy said, \u201cHey, I can fix that.\u201d Took it over, and there she is.<\/p>\n

BM: Let me get another picture. Sometimes my iPhone takes better pictures than my Nikon.<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah. Obviously, you\u2019re attracted to that, and I love that. We have a picture of little Oliver who put his arms around her.<\/p>\n

BM: Oh really, that must have been an emotional moment.<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah, it was. He was a sweet little kid. Like I said, the power of prayer, that\u2019s very powerful. So whether it be a broken statue of Mary or a pipe, or whatever. A church, a tree, a mountain.<\/p>\n

BM: Do you ever read books by an author named Tom Brown, Jr.?<\/p>\n

KM: Uh-uh.<\/p>\n

\"Screen<\/a>BM: Tom Brown, Jr., wrote a book called The Way of the Scout<\/a>.<\/i> He writes a lot of books about Native American life, and an old Indian he called \u201cGrandfather\u201d who taught him how to live off the land and track in the woods and appreciate the spirituality of the outdoors. When I first read that book it just floored me. I thought, wow, these guys were really in touch.<\/p>\n

KM: But you know what, Bill, we\u2019re all Indians. You know what I mean? It\u2019s like, I know so many Indians that are like, you can\u2019t come over here. You can\u2019t come to a sun dance, you\u2019re white. Well, yeah, but our hearts are all red.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: We do that all the time, and again, there\u2019s four colors in the world, black, white, red, yellow. How many times, oh, you\u2019re not supposed to go to China and be with those Tibetans and those monks. Or you\u2019re not supposed to be with those black people, going to a Baptist church. And you can\u2019t sing and hold snakes and drink turpentine. And this whole list of you can\u2019t, you can\u2019t, you can\u2019t, you can\u2019t, you can\u2019t. We\u2019re all related. We\u2019re all Baptist. We\u2019re all black. We\u2019re all red. We\u2019re all white. We\u2019re all yellow.<\/p>\n

BM: Is that fairly common teaching at your church, or are you unique there?<\/p>\n

KM: What?<\/p>\n

BM: The things you\u2019re talking about now.<\/p>\n

KM: That\u2019s what I love about Father Mark. He\u2019s a servant too, just like me. He\u2019s a priest, he\u2019s a man. Just like Jesus was a man. Jesus sinned, in a sense, or I think he did. Or he laughed, he was tempted. You don\u2019t think the disciples did fart jokes?<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: You\u2019re supposed to have fun. Everybody gets so serious. Out for causes and you can\u2019t have fun if you\u2019re in church. I don\u2019t believe that. And again, remember my church, what Sana said with the ground and the four directions and the ceiling. That\u2019s a big church. There\u2019s churches within churches. Churches, churches, churches. You\u2019re always in church. That\u2019s what I don\u2019t understand. You\u2019re always in church. And how many times I\u2019ve sat in a tree stand just waiting for deer. That\u2019s pretty cool. That\u2019s how come people that hate Ted Nugent. Well, he just kills animals. Ted\u2019s a pretty cool person. He\u2019s a good friend.<\/p>\n

BM: Is he really?<\/p>\n

KM: He\u2019s a real good spiritual person.<\/p>\n

BM: I like Ted. I\u2019ve always liked his music, and he\u2019s a wild man in concert, and very outspoken.<\/p>\n

KM: But he\u2019s a good person. I mean, I\u2019m sure Ted did something this weekend with the stuff he\u2019s done with the military and wounded warriors. He\u2019s done the walk. It\u2019s like that woman on Facebook yelling about the buffalo. Well, walk it. Go walk from here to there. Don\u2019t just sit and just complain. How many people do that? They just complain.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] Most people do that.<\/p>\n

KM: I bow hunted a bear once, and it was politically correctness. All these people were, like, \u201cBe careful.\u201d Because here\u2019s the politics again, right, all these people were like, \u201cBe careful what you say.\u201d And I can remember once I told Sana I got a bear. And he was, like, \u201cReally?\u201d And I was, like, \u201cYeah, I got him with a bow.\u201d And Sana goes, \u201cThat\u2019s good. He was born for you. That lives with you from now on.\u201d And what was funny is here I\u2019m teaching a Native American how to use a bow.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] How did that feel? Were you like awed by that experience?<\/p>\n

KM: No, it was, like, \u201cI thought you knew. I don\u2019t know how to shoot one of these.\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: Really?<\/p>\n

KM: You know what I mean? It was humble. We were at a sun dance once. I was at a sun dance because Sana, he dances, and that\u2019s just what he does. June time starts the sun dance time. And Sana wanted to go to a sun dance, and we went down to Big Mountain, Arizona. And that whole mountain now is all closed, the government closed that down. So I love when I hear people say all the time we\u2019re being persecuted for prayer. But Sana was at another sun dance one time and a sun dance is where you dance for four days without food and water, and it\u2019s basically a chance for you to just give thanks, and especially just to suffer for people who are less fortunate than you.<\/p>\n

BM: Four days without?<\/p>\n

KM: Uh-huh, without food and water. Then what you do is sometimes Sana would see these, right here, see these scars right here, they would tie that to a tree. Or he had wounds like that on his back where they would take —<\/p>\n

BM: — you\u2019re not going to say hooks, are you? —<\/p>\n

KM: — hooks with buffalo skulls and the children would ride on the buffalo skulls until your skin broke, because the only thing you own is your flesh and your blood, ok. And so anyways, you\u2019d get a lot of these ceremonies and stuff like that. And Sana was at this one ceremony, and a lot of cults and stuff would come, and these guys ran up to Sana once and said, \u201cSana, witches are here.\u201d And he starts looking up at the sky going, \u201cWhere are they?\u201d And they said, \u201cThey\u2019re at the gate.\u201d You see, he thought they were flying in on brooms. That\u2019s how innocent he was. And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo, they\u2019re right here at the gate. They\u2019re witches.\u201d And he said, \u201cWell, have them come on in.\u201d \u201cThey\u2019re witches.\u201d And he said, \u201cSo? Have them come on in.\u201d<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: And he sat down and he talked to witches. And he said, \u201cJust because I\u2019m talking to witches doesn\u2019t mean I have to be a witch, but they have something to say.\u201d Right? That\u2019s the kind of innocence, when someone says witches are here and he\u2019s looking up at the sky thinking they\u2019re flying in on brooms.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: That\u2019s pretty amazing. Learning to just accept people for what they are. We\u2019re all praying to the same God. Especially this whole Middle Eastern thing. That\u2019s what\u2019s amazing to me, it\u2019s like, guess what, same God, folks! Nope, I own him, you don\u2019t. That\u2019s where they\u2019re at. I own God. Your God\u2019s the wrong God, so we gotta kill you.<\/p>\n

BM: So how do you get around that? How do you fix a situation like that?<\/p>\n

KM: Pray. You know what, you don\u2019t know what to do, pray. God\u2019s stronger than the Muslims and the Christians, and Christians are being crucified literally now. So what is mankind going to do? Nothing. Mankind will destroy it. Trust me. Women give birth, men destroy. It\u2019s all out of control. So pray.<\/p>\n

BM: Let me ask you one more thing, \u2018cause you mentioned God a lot. How do you know God exists?<\/p>\n

\"Solenopsis_invicta1\"<\/a>KM: Like I said, try and build an ant.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs]<\/p>\n

KM: Right? I\u2019m gonna leave you with that.<\/p>\n

BM: I gotta use that, \u201ctry and build an ant.\u201d [laughs] I have to use that as the headline.<\/p>\n

KM: Yep, but it\u2019s true. I look at that little [creature], you know. Plus, as I said, Bill. Try to out-give God. How do I know God exists? That\u2019s pretty funny.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] That could be my headline. \u201cHow do I know God exists? Try and build an ant.\u201d<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah. Stay in touch, too, bud. It doesn\u2019t have to end. It\u2019s pretty cool. We\u2019ve talked more and more and more.<\/p>\n

BM: I\u2019d love to. There\u2019s a lot of what you\u2019re saying that just resonates so much. Everything you said resonates. This is the path I\u2019m on lately. Finding people like you who have something to say about how to make the world a better place, starting with yourself. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about.<\/p>\n

KM: I\u2019ll tell you, too, Bill, there\u2019s no question, a huge concern I have lately is the unborn children and what\u2019s happening.<\/p>\n

BM: That Gosnell trial must\u2019ve broken your heart then, didn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah, I mean, I read a report today, there was a little Chinese baby<\/a> flushed down a toilet and lived. And it\u2019s like, my God, you know? I look at that abortion doctor and two weeks ago, it\u2019s, wow. I can\u2019t help it. Even Obama is for partial-birth abortion, and I go, eww. Wow. Do you really care about me? Oh, you want to stop Al-Qaeda? And this is what you do to the unborn? I love that. Seriously. What we do with little children will tell you what we do with humanity.<\/p>\n

BM: I agree.<\/p>\n

KM: Look at this, yeah, Chinese baby rescued alive from toilet pipe after being flushed. Watch the video clip.<\/p>\n

BM: That\u2019s heartbreaking.<\/p>\n

KM: What does that say?<\/p>\n

BM: I don\u2019t know, but it makes me cry.<\/p>\n

KM: Do you know what I\u2019m saying? What does that say? And that baby\u2019s alive. And that\u2019s how come when people want to, gosh I\u2019ve got to get the Atkins Diet or the South Beach Diet, or what\u2019s, how do my eyes look, do I look old?<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: Are you kidding me? You\u2019ve got to put things into perspective, Bill. It\u2019s not that hard. It\u2019s simple. You\u2019re making a difference already. You don\u2019t have to publish a book, you\u2019re making a difference already. It\u2019s like what my Native grandma told me: you overturn a stone, you change the universe. It really is true. Think of that stone, if you\u2019re ever in Alaska.<\/p>\n

BM: I\u2019ve been to Alaska.<\/p>\n

\"631px-FullMoon2010\"<\/a>KM: You go to a place where there\u2019s never been anybody, the moon<\/a>, look at the moon. There was nobody there. Suddenly they start bringing moon rocks down. That\u2019s another thing, too. Sana, his Tuscarora, Iroquois Indian [Tribe] near Niagara Falls, When NASA was first going to go to the moon, NASA went to that reservation, and they asked Turhan Clause, \u201cTell us more about the moon.\u201d The Tuscarora said, \u201cDon\u2019t take anything from the moon,\u201d the elders said. \u201cIf you do, you\u2019ve got to give something in return.\u201d You can\u2019t just, you understand, I can take something but I\u2019ve got to give it back. So many people, they\u2019ll just take things.<\/p>\n

BM: How do you spell his name?<\/p>\n

KM: TURHAN CLAUSE<\/p>\n

BM: Turhan Clause.<\/p>\n

KM: Or crossing feet.<\/p>\n

BM: Crossing feet?<\/p>\n

KM: Crossing feet, because when he was a little baby, his feet crossed.<\/p>\n

BM: Crossing Feet Clause. He\u2019s a Native American.<\/p>\n

KM: Yeah, he died of complications to diabetes.<\/p>\n

BM: That\u2019s too bad.<\/p>\n

KM: Eh, he\u2019s not dead. Trust me, he\u2019s not dead.<\/p>\n

BM: I like the way you think. [laughs] I appreciate that. And I appreciate your time.<\/p>\n

KM: Oh my pleasure, but you\u2019re doing something good. Publish your book. Publish it, get it on the Internet. Here, I\u2019m telling you what to do.<\/p>\n

BM: [laughs] No, I appreciate it.<\/p>\n

KM: I\u2019m telling you there\u2019s a lot of people that are starving, buddy. You\u2019ve got a chance to feed them.<\/p>\n

BM: Yeah.<\/p>\n

KM: But, see, you have thought about it. You\u2019ve prayed about it. And again, you only have to pray once. I love people that keep praying and praying and praying and praying. It\u2019s like, he heard it. And now keep your eyes open because it might not hit you over the head or FedEx isn\u2019t going to deliver you the result, you\u2019ve got to be attentive.<\/p>\n

BM: You\u2019re right. Maybe, I was looking for a way to make a difference.<\/p>\n

KM: Well, here it is. You\u2019d be surprised what overturning one little rock will do. That rippling effect, where it just keeps going out. You can make a difference. You\u2019re supposed to be doing this. And you\u2019d be surprised at how you don\u2019t have to do a lot of the work. Let people tell you. See, Bill, it\u2019s no coincidence that you came here. You know what I mean? It\u2019s amazing how things work, and if you just keep your eyes and\"Kevin1\"<\/a> ears open, how, wow, it\u2019s just awesome. And again, Bill, you can jump into that political world and they\u2019re going to tell you this isn\u2019t politically correct. Or they\u2019ll tell you, you can\u2019t do that, you gotta get a permit for that, you\u2019re never gonna get a web designer for this, da da da da da. Oh, don\u2019t talk about Muslims and Hindus and Native Americans. You can\u2019t do that, you can\u2019t do that, you can\u2019t do that. Take a look at the Milky Way, Bill, and that\u2019s the honest-to-God truth. There\u2019s one that\u2019s long and one that\u2019s short, and I\u2019m not saying that could be Jesus to Mohammed to whatever.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In May, 2013, The Only Love Project\u2019s Bill Murphy (BM) spent an hour over coffee in the home of legendary radio personality Kevin Matthews (KM) experiencing a conversation that Kevin later called \u201ca ceremony, a prayer.\u201d You\u2019re welcome to eavesdrop. … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0},"categories":[127,136,128,134,139,89,214,123,121,122,125,132,142,5,133,130,35,124,135,129,131,137,138,140,126,141],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/650"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=650"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/650\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":681,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/650\/revisions\/681"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=650"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=650"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theonlyloveproject.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=650"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}